C A N A D A
DE LA PERSONNE
RICHARD WARMAN Complainant le plaignant
CANADIAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION
Commission la Commission
ATHANASIOS HADJIS THE CHAIRPERSON/
CAROL ANN HARTUNG REGISTRY OFFICER/
L’AGENTE DU GREFFE
FILE NO./NO CAUSE: T1106/8705
LOCATION/ENDROIT: VANCOUVER, BRITISH COLUMBIA
PAGES: 239 – 510
1 THE CHAIRPERSON: Which tab is this?
2 MR. WARMAN: The poem is from tab 17.
3 THE CHAIRPERSON: This one here?
4 MR. WARMAN: Yes. I see that there’s
5 big holes where the name should be.
6 THE CHAIRPERSON: I’m sorry, I’m a
7 little confused here. Tab 17, I have A.
8 MR. VIGNA: The layout, when you look
9 at it, it might seem different, but if you look at the
10 contents it’s pretty much the same.
11 THE CHAIRPERSON: Right.
12 MR. VIGNA: Perhaps, Mr. Warman, you
13 can explain it.
14 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, perhaps you
15 can explain it.
16 MR. WARMAN: Sure.
17 THE CHAIRPERSON: I do see that the
18 content is similar. It’s got the poem in it, but how
19 come the layout is different, as Mr. Vigna has
21 MR. WARMAN: Sure. I will happily
23 The first one is a Commission
24 document. The second one is a document that was
25 printed off in my presence on Friday.
1 THE CHAIRPERSON: So, the second
2 document was available on the Internet and printed off?
3 MR. WARMAN: Yes, on Friday.
4 THE CHAIRPERSON: On Friday.
5 MR. WARMAN: So, if it’s more
6 appropriate, we can withdraw the first one and simply
7 tender the second one.
8 THE CHAIRPERSON: I’m just wondering,
9 given the different layout, maybe it would be better to
10 keep both.
11 MR. WARMAN: Sure.
12 MR. VIGNA: I have no problem.
13 THE CHAIRPERSON: For the purposes of
14 the record. We were shown one document and you
15 testified on that.
16 MR. WARMAN: Yes.
17 THE CHAIRPERSON: Now you have the
18 second document and this one has been, according to
19 you, printed out. Is there any indication that you
20 printed it out you said yesterday?
21 MR. WARMAN: Friday.
22 THE CHAIRPERSON: You said Friday.
23 MR. WARMAN: Yes. There is no date
24 on it, but I can testify that it was printed off on
1 THE CHAIRPERSON: It does refer to a
2 radio broadcast at the top, Friday, December 8th.
3 MR. WARMAN: Yes.
4 MR. VIGNA: We can keep both, Mr.
6 THE CHAIRPERSON: I think it might be
7 better for the purposes of the record to keep both.
8 So, last Friday would mean December 8th.
9 MR. WARMAN: I believe it would be
10 December 8th.
11 REGISTRY OFFICER: Yes, it is the
12 8th. So, we are adding this to tab 17?
13 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, I think we
14 should add it to tab 17.
2 MR. FROMM: Could I direct your
3 attention to tab 17?
4 THE CHAIRPERSON: Perhaps you should
5 specify which of the two versions.
6 MR. FROMM: Yes. To the one we were
7 given yesterday, one of three, where it says across the
8 top, “Welcome, Jadewarr.” Do you see that, Mr. Warman?
9 MR. WARMAN: I do.
10 MR. FROMM: Can you explain what that
11 is, “Welcome, Jadewarr?
12 MR. WARMAN: It appears to be a name
13 that was logged in under.
14 MR. FROMM: By whom?
15 MR. WARMAN: I’m sorry, I don’t know.
16 MR. FROMM: Would that not have to
17 have been by you?
18 MR. WARMAN: No, it would not.
19 THE CHAIRPERSON: Because you
20 indicated earlier that this was not a copy that you had
21 printed out.
22 MR. WARMAN: That I produced, no.
23 The second copy is the one that I produced.
24 THE CHAIRPERSON: Does your name
25 appear on this one?
1 MR. WARMAN: The second copy was
2 printed off in my presence.
3 THE CHAIRPERSON: It was printed off.
4 MR. FROMM: Then who is Jadewarr?
5 MR. WARMAN: I’m sorry, it’s not my
7 MR. FROMM: But it was produced in
8 your presence?
9 MR. WARMAN: No, the second document
10 I printed off.
11 MR. FROMM: The second document,
12 which is the clearer copy, says “Italy for Italians” at
13 the top. You can see that. Is that the one?
14 MR. WARMAN: It does, yes.
15 MR. FROMM: The other one, the one
16 that was given to us yesterday, which is much less
17 clear and says to Der Totenkopf, but at the top it says
18 “Welcome, Jadewarr…” you say that was printed off in
19 your presence?
20 MR. WARMAN: No, it was not.
21 MR. FROMM: It was not. Then what’s
22 the origin of it?
23 MR. WARMAN: I don’t know.
24 THE CHAIRPERSON: You don’t know now
25 but you mentioned earlier that it was from the
1 Commission. That’s what I heard you say.
2 MR. WARMAN: It originates in the
3 broadest sense with the Commission.
4 THE CHAIRPERSON: So the Commission
5 had produced this photocopy?
6 MR. WARMAN: Yes, but in terms of its
7 specific origins, I have no idea.
8 MR. FROMM: Is it your testimony,
9 then, that it’s a Commission document?
10 MR. WARMAN: It originates with the
11 Commission. I do not know its providence.
12 MR. FROMM: In my submission, then,
13 it shouldn’t be an exhibit if we don’t know where it
14 came from.
15 MR. VIGNA: Mr. Chair, the document
16 that was produced this morning was produced by Mr.
18 THE CHAIRPERSON: Right. It was my
19 suggestion that we keep it because there was some
20 testimony about that yesterday. I just wanted to keep
21 the record complete.
22 MR. FROMM: Then what we have been
23 given this morning is substantially different from the
24 copy we had yesterday. Yes, the text from Jessy
25 Destruction would appear to be the same.
1 THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
2 MR. FROMM: Perhaps not even that.
3 The text we have this morning just says Jessy
4 Destruction. There is no logo. The logo that appears
5 on yesterday’s would seem to be a Swastika.
6 MR. WARMAN: It’s because it was
7 printed off on two different days.
8 THE CHAIRPERSON: Right, but you
9 yourself did not print off this page?
10 MR. WARMAN: No I did not. I should
11 be specific, not page 1 of 3, the first page there.
12 THE CHAIRPERSON: So it’s true you’ve
13 never seen this document yourself prior to it being
14 entered into —
15 MR. WARMAN: I’ve seen it as part of
16 the disclosure package that came from the Commission.
17 THE CHAIRPERSON: But not as a
18 document that you’re familiar with?
19 MR. WARMAN: This document, no. I’ve
20 seen the content of it. I’ve seen that website with
21 that material on it.
22 THE CHAIRPERSON: Do you want to have
23 it removed? Mr. Fromm wants to have it removed. Do
24 you have any objection to it being removed. Mr. Vigna?
25 MR. VIGNA: No.