11 thoughts on “Angry Women

  1. Michael,

    Thank you for your love to our Church. We were instructed by Jesus to love our neighbor. Institutions are made of imperfect men and women, like you and me that are in this journey of life to bear witness of the love of God expressed in every divine person created by God, including those who dissent from our points of view.

    If we fail to recognize that love is the essence that lives in every human being, either Catholic or form any other faith we are then not living the teachings from Jesus or from the Church.

    If we go back to centuries, you will see how many mistakes have taken place by past popes, bishops even with teachings that cost the lives of many innocents. I don’t blame or complain about it, because it only tests that all mankind fail, but the love and mercy of God is bigger than our own ego or our worst sins.

    The Pharisees used to point out the sins of others and Jesus told us: “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her”….

    Very clear I see in your comments throwing several stones against our Sisters.

    Therefore, if your comment has been endorsed by any leader of our church, they need to go to RCIA classes or CCD.

    You say that they are lying and distorting truth…. Opps. I disagree 100% on your comment. Without dialogue, there is always poor judgment. Without dialogue, there is no understanding.

    You refer to our sisters as a group of “old ladies”…Wow, what a despicable and offensive way to refer to sisters who have dedicated their lives to live the beatitudes. I know several of those wise ladies. Some of them might be old in age, but their soul and spirit is young.

    The LCWR, is not a wacky organization. It is the leadership conference of Women religious that represents 80% of the nuns in the USA, with branches in multiple countries.

    To blame the sisters for the exodus of Catholics in America is another lie.

    Some people living the beatitudes are called now betrays of the church. Such remark can’t be from a Christian person. However there is good news for our sisters:
    “Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven”.

    So far, the sisters are disappointed by the assessment ordered by the CDF, that had some many mistakes and lies. If the CDF don’t correct that injustice, the committed Catholics will help to correct that. Catholic are called to be Universal. Not a sectarian group of people who can’t express any opinion.
    So far, I have never heard, and I’ve never met any sister promoting immorality, but the teachings and love from Jesus.
    To pray and worship God there are unlimited ways to do it. TO limit to only one rite, is to limit the expression of the Holy Spirit.
    If you see the expression of love as poison, your comments are completely upside down. I’m not infected by the intolerance, but overwhelmed by the graces and inspiration of their passion, work and good deeds.
    if we don’t want the church to admit that 95% of all Sexual active Catholics have taken or are talking contraception’s, means that we want to keep the magisterium living in the state of denial.
    Presenting the sisters as Evil creatures portrays a very poor vision.
    Please learn more about the Sisters in this link http://ncronline.org/SistersUnderScrutiny
    God bless you and all your readers.

    • Gabriel,
      The fact that a large number of Catholic adults use contraception does not shed any light on whether or not its use is morally acceptable. Morality is not determined by taking a poll, or by taking the opinion of a majority of theologians.

      The Catholic Church’s teachings on faith and morality is protected by the Holy Spirit and consequently it cannot err. This authority to teach was given to Peter, the first Pope, and to the bishops in union with him, from Jesus Christ himself.

      As a result it is not the magisterium that is living in denial (as you say), it is in fact the individuals that choose to dissent from the teachings of the Church who are living in denial and have consequently put the salvation of their souls in jeopardy.

      To believe otherwise is to deny what Catholics have believed for 2000 years.

      The problem with modernists like yourself is that you use a lot of words that sound Catholic but you mean something completely different. There can be no dialogue when the one side intentionally tries to deceive by changing the meaning of words and cherry picks biblical verses in order to use them for contexts they weren’t intended for.

      Be honest with yourself, you’re not Catholic, despite claims to the contrary. You and you’re compatriots have left some time ago, but rather than be honest about it, have instead decided to stay within the structures of the Church to further spread your dissent or in vain attempts to change the official teaching.

      May God have mercy on your soul,

      Andy

      • God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved, said Jesus. If you want to print certificates to 95% of “unworthy” Catholics for not following your “rule”, then your are free to do it and by the way you have the freedom to restore the Pharisaic Church of the “good” people, enlightened by doctrines 180 degrees far away from the teachings of Jesus. Please, count me out from such cult.

        Nevertheless, those of us that by our own will, freely, without intimidation have decided to remain in the Catholic Church, are invited to bear witness of our faith.

        Jesus didn´t rebuked the Jews for their sacrifices on the Temple, but for the abuses, for stealing money from the poor in the temple.

        Extremist “enlightened” shooter Wade Michael Page just made a crime for his intolerance in his attacks to the Sikh temple. Attacks from Michael in his post and to our sisters portray the kind of poor vision and lack of love we have in our church.

        All of us that are baptized are Temples of the Holy Spirit too. And the HS does not err. All humans, including the clergy sin, not the HS. Just in the last 30 years, our past two popes have enacted rules that Jesus never even suggested. We need to abolish everything that is against the dignity of human beings, and by the way, women are also human beings. They have been excluded for centuries.

        I truly believe that the sisters need to boldy stand up against the suffocating “control” that the Vatican continues to “impose” on just about anyone and everyone. It sickens me and several millions of Catholics that in the 21st century our ecclesiastic authorities are not liberating the spirit but rather are trying and failing to micromanaging the soul.

        May God have mercy on you, and in all of us to avoid succumbing to the mediocrity and failing to love our neighbour.

        • Gabriel,
          The problem with modernists like yourself is that no one really knows what you’re talking about. You purposely avoid clarity in order to confuse and mislead the people you’re speaking to.

          When you say “loving your neighbour” does that mean giving pregnant mothers the right to kill children in their womb? When you say “we need to abolish everything that is against the dignity of human beings” does that mean giving sodomy the big thumbs up?

          You see, I don’t expect you to answer those questions in a clear way because that is the opposite of how your side operates, which is why dialogue is pointless.

          You’re a protestant. You don’t accept the authority of the Pope and the bishops that are in union with him when it comes to matters of faith and morality. That’s your right of course, it just means your not Catholic. In case you’re wondering, you’re a protestant.

          The great thing about being a protestant is that you get to decide, by your own authority, what is right or wrong in these areas. Read some scripture and pray about it, apparently the Holy Spirit will fill you in. The only part I don’t get is why we have so many people coming to different conclusions about what is right and wrong despite following the same prescription. Maybe you could explain it to me.

          Labeling yourself a Catholic, and remaining within the external structures of the Church doesn’t change the fact that you’re not one by any coherent definition of the word. I realize that won’t stop you from making up a new definition of the word though (without telling anyone of course)…that’s what modernists do.

          • Andy, I participate in different prolife activities and strongly respect life since conception and at all stages of life. I participate in different missions, were politics are absent, just to live the beatitudes. I have walked with thousands of people including many nuns in March for life in DC. Have you talked an met our sisters? I do, and I have seen them working, not driving a luxury car.

            The CDF unfairly accused the sisters that they were not supporting life. Such blatant accusation against the sisters in the doctrinal assessment is full of mistakes and inaccurate accusations, triggered to me to defend them, because I’m involved in many projects were thy have given me lessons of their dedicated life.

            Why shall you, we remain indifferent or silence over those false accusations made against our sisters? I’m not fighting Rome, because I respect my priests, my bishops and my pope. Wrong decisions, need to be correct regardless the level of authority in our church. Mi intention, in light of such mistake made from wrong information the CDF, was to help correct that, because it is tested that all human beings, including our hierarchy fails.

            Without self-criticism we can’t advance. I don’t take offense for any adjective I’m labeled. I’m a committed Catholic working beyond the walls of the temple.

            FYI. In my life some women have confessed to me abortions they committed in their life. I don’t support abortion but I do support women who regret wrong decisions they made in their lives that need healing not condemnation. Everything that is against the dignity of any human being should be revised. I don’t support sodomy and I haven’t heard sisters from the LCWR supporting that.

            if we don’t acknowledge that same gender preference exists among members of our faith and we just reject them we will be not living the teaching from Jesus. Today the teaching should be updated: Reject sin, embrace sinners. Today I see “reject sinners”, and specially reject people with voices who differ from the Magisterium who has enacted in the past 34 years more laws than never before.

            Jesus was clear, “Those who are not against us are for us”. The sisters from the LCWR were virtually placed with a gun in their heads, to obey blindly the arbitrary assessment from the CDF.

            Would you subordinate to any authority by intimidation? I would’t.

  2. First, I have the impression you don’t want a reply, one of the words is so difficult to read/copy. I keep a distance of some bishops or others, whom I don’t seem to understand very well. I am a rather old Catholic scout. For years I pray in public at a Mary-statue downtown,hang sign “Whether glad,sad or wary, rest a while, say a Hail Mary”; started yearly Mary-procession, ending in a church with Mary-crowning. Wear a wooden 3 cm cross over my sweater. And other Catholic PUBLIC actions. Never received H.Communion in hand, always on tongue. I listen to the Pope. Hope to get the Tridentine (Latin)Mass here. Do propagate H.Communion on tongue !!

  3. Gabriel,
    You said:
    “Everything that is against the dignity of any human being should be revised.” and “I don’t support sodomy ….if we don’t acknowledge that same gender preference exists among members of our faith and we just reject them we will be not living the teaching from Jesus. Today the teaching should be updated: Reject sin, embrace sinners. ”

    The Catechism of the Catholic Church lists its teachings on homosexuality in sections 2357-2359. There you will find that the Church does indeed acknowledge that same-sex attraction exists. Where in the world did you get the idea that it doesn’t? Where did you get the idea that the Church teaches that we should reject those who suffer from same-sex attraction? Have you read the Catechism? What do you think the Church should teach regarding homosexuality?

    You also said,
    “The sisters from the LCWR were virtually placed with a gun in their heads, to obey blindly the arbitrary assessment from the CDF. Would you subordinate to any authority by intimidation? I would’t.”

    Your last sentence illustrates why you have a protestant worldview. The CDF is not just “any” authority. They act on behalf of the Pope. Consequently, the CDF has the legitimate authority to assess and set out reforms for the LCWR. Do you realize that nuns make vows of obedience when they enter the consecrated life? To admit that you would disobey, if in their shoes, puts your worldview squarely outside of Catholicism and into the protestant camp.

    • Andy, I have good news for you: We have a common understanding. We coincide in the teaching from our church related to homosexuality. The difference is that if you ask any Catholic person who has a same sex gender preference, in 90% of the chances say will they don’t feel welcome in our church, because they are seen as second class citizens of the church, as the “Sinners” who should be converted while the other Pharisees can continue to sin or live as the “good people”….

      CCC 1782 says: (Wo)Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. “(She)He must not be forced to act contrary to (her) his conscience. Nor must (she)he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters.

      Obedience is about discernment. My conscience in this topic is very clear. I will not submit to arrogance, nor to imposition to decrees completely twisted and deformed.

      In the Old Testament, those who denounced the rabies were seen as heretics. Nowadays we call them Prophets!

      The LCWR, consist of wise human beings who have walked the road of Jesus for all their life. Suddenly they were cowardly attacked by former leader Cardinal Levada, who thanks God resigned. He raised unsubstantial accusations. I invite you to read in detail the assessment. It is one of the most embarrassing periods of our church and the Vatican state. The CDF raised false accusations. Do you remember when our pope declarations in Germany were taken out of context on Sep 2006 when he went under a hail of criticism from the Islamic world for comments he made regarding the Prophet Mohammed?

      Well, same mistake that was harsh criticized by our leaders were made unfairly committed against our sisters. Do you think our sisters deserve mockery, insults, and calumnious statements?

      Well, I absolutely don´t think so. It looks that you do support that. What a shame! Millions of committed Catholics don’t share blatant or unfunded accusations. I hope Mike expresses his apologies and that the new leadership of the CDF amends this grievous mistake made against not only our sisters, but against all our church.

  4. Gabriel,
    I’ve read the CDF’s assessment in detail and found it to be fair and charitable. If there is anything to criticize it would be that the assessment is probably 20-30 years late.

    The sisters appear to have gone off the deep end with regard to remaining faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church. Although there are many examples, a very current one is the LCWR leadership’s choice of a New Age Futurist (Barbara Marx Hubbard) to address its 2012 assembly. Not really what you would expect from a leadership that is on board with the Church’s teachings — which are as our faith teaches us, are Christ’s teachings.

    When it comes to the obedience of a religious to their superior, discernment only comes into play if one is being asked to do something sinful. Complying with the stated reforms wouldn’t be sinful and so there can be no appeal to conscience as a legitimate reason for disobedience.

    And as to the prophets of the Old Testament, they never undermined or dissented from the teachings of the Torah. The same can’t be said for the leadership of the LCWR, which makes the chances of them being proclaimed future prophets pretty close to zero.

  5. Andy, Rejecting interfaith dialogue and not putting that into practice, means that we are missing to grasp the II Vatican Council. Please take a look to the Declaration on the Relation of the Church to Non-Christian Religious NOSTRA AETATE proclaimed by pope Paul VI on 10/28/1965. It is a wonderful piece, that we need to put into practice!
    http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

    From that, you can see that our sisters are way ahead of what some people are doing. We shouldn’t fail recognizing that all human beings regardless of their faith are divine creation. At the hospitals and at multiple levels they speak with a variety of people from different faiths and backgrounds. Like the Parable of the Good Samaritan, they don’t ask the sick person to present a membership form one cult as a condition to provide healing or medical services. Do you think that we need to be isolated and don’t give testimony of our faith? Mother Theresa worked mostly with non Catholics.

    If we don’t listen to others, we would not be able to say that we are members of the Universal Church, but just from a sectarian denomination.

    I invite you to take a look to http://ncronline.org/SistersUnderScrutiny
    to read more details about our sisters. Thousands have expressed support to our sisters including priests. Archbishop from St Louis declared at the opening his gratitude to them.

    http://stlouisreview.com/article/2012-08-09/lcwr-sisters-discuss

    I invite you and anyone having bias against any group to suppress it. It is a loving decision.

  6. I wish someone would write a comprehensive book on the TRUE nature of the word love. Gabriel could use such a book. This word has become so distorted by the modernist crowd. “REAL LOVE involves real hatred: whoever has lost the power of moral indignation and the urge to drive the sellers from the temples has also lost a living, fervent love of Truth…if you lose the ability to hate what is evil, you have lost the ability to love what is true.”
    ~ Archbishop Fulton Sheen

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